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PhD without scholarship...Is it possible?
Ancatdubh
[Registered User]
27 May 2012 08:35 | Hi all, I was just wondering if any of you is starting a PhD without funding and how you plan to cover expenses. I do not know about the results of all scholarships i applied for, and if they are unsuccessful I don't know what I should do.
Do you think it's worth to ask a loan or spend so much from your own pocket? Is it possible to combine part time work with PhD studies...? Thanks you so much! |
hazyjane
[Registered User]
27 May 2012 12:18 | It depends on the academic field. I've never met anyone self-fund a science PhD as the time commitments are not amenable/flexible enough for part time work on top and the cost of equipment/reagents means that it's just not possible to pay your own way.
The other question you should ask yourself is 'Is it wise to do a PhD without a scholarship?' You need to have a very honest understanding of the job prospects in your field and whether it is worth the financial and time sacrifices to pursue a qualification which might not enhance your job prospects. Get some good advice on this that is relevant to your field. Be very clear about where you hope to be in a few years time and whether or not the PhD will genuinely help you get there.
If you do self fund, then doing the PhD part time while working would probably be the best way to go. There are some people on here who do this and would be able to give you an insight into the challenges of that. |
BilboBaggins
[Registered User]
27 May 2012 13:50 | ======= Date Modified 27 May 2012 13:50:24 =======
Self-funded part-time PhDs are incredibly common in the humanities in the UK, where there is very little funding. Often people fit these in alongside full-time or nearly full-time jobs. But they are not generally aiming for academic careers, but more doing the PhD for self reward. Some will go on to tutor part-time, for example evening classes or the OU. But few would go on to be full-time salaried academics. So the equation of whether it's worth it financially is a bit different.
I was originally a science student, full-time and funded by EPSRC. I had to leave that due to falling seriously ill. Years later, after two humanities degrees, I started a part-time humanities PhD. Initially I was self-funded, and expected to self-fund for the duration. But in my first year I applied for AHRC funding and won it, so I was funded for the remainder. AHRC are an unusual funding council because they will fund part-time students, which is still relatively rare in the sciences. |
clemenza
[Registered User]
27 May 2012 16:31 | It is possible if you are rich. |
strawberrygirl
[Registered User]
29 May 2012 10:07 | ======= Date Modified 29 May 2012 10:21:12 =======
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======= Date Modified 29 May 2012 10:19:07 =======
======= Date Modified 29 May 2012 10:18:26 =======
[quote]Quote From BilboBaggins:
======= Date Modified 27 May 2012 13:50:24 =======
Self-funded part-time PhDs are incredibly common in the humanities in the UK, where there is very little funding. Often people fit these in alongside full-time or nearly full-time jobs. But they are not generally aiming for academic careers, but more doing the PhD for self reward. Some will go on to tutor part-time, for example evening classes or the OU. But few would go on to be full-time salaried academics. So the equation of whether it's worth it financially is a bit different.
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END OF QUOTE:
Hi I just wanted to add to the answers given already and also to comment on BilboBaggins comments. It definitely seems to be the case that in the humanities a very high proportion of PhD students are self funded. In the humanities (compared to the sciences) there are also many more mature and part time students, often people are juggling work and children and/or work and a phd. So in the humanities those who have a scholarship definitely seem to be in the significant minority (I asked a similar question recently on here).
I just wanted to pick up on BilboBaggins point that most self funded students don't intend to work in academia. I wonder why you draw the distinction between self funded and funded phds in terms of future jobs. Are you suggesting that fewer self-funded phds go onto employment in academia because they can't get jobs or because they never wanted academic jobs in the first place? I am not sure there is a significant distinction made by employers between whether someone is self-funded or not. Or am I wrong? Having funding often just means that you are fortunate to sit within current funding guidelines/priorities of that University or funding body, for whatever reason. So BB, forgetting for now those who don't intend to work in academia, are you suggesting that if someone's PhD is not funded then it is harder to find work afterwards? (I am not disagreeing just curious to know what you and others think).
Sorry but I can't work out how to write my bit outside of the section listed as a quote.
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hazyjane
[Registered User]
29 May 2012 10:29 | Science perspective here but a former boss of mine reckoned that 'funding begets funding'. This comment came about when I was applying for funding for an MSc and expressed the view that I could self fund if need be, but he was adamant that as well as being financially helpful, the MSc funding would look good on my CV and increase my chances for subsequent applications.
I do of course recognise that funding availability is hugely variable between fields and in some fields obtaining it may feel like 'luck of the draw'. I have no idea whether, in a field where self funding is common, there is any distinction made at latter stages as to whether people have self funded their PhDs or not. But in practical terms, one has to think very very carefully before embarking on a 3-4 year unpaid apprenticeship for a rare job. In the current economic climate it is hard to justify that decision as being a good career move. By all means do an unfunded PhD if you have the money and enthusiasm, but don't assume that you will ever recoup the financial losses or that it will necessarily lead to an academic career (latter point applies to funded PhDs too).
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BilboBaggins
[Registered User]
29 May 2012 10:48 | Hi Strawberrygirl, my comments were based on what I have observed in many many other self funding part time humanities student, I don't think that self funding makes anyone less employable in academia. However my experience is that part time self funded students are much less likely to aim to work in academia, full-time. Each case is different, but for mature self funding students who may already have a secure full time job the goals are different from new starters. This isn't because they can't get the jobs, but more because they don't seek them, alongside their existing life situations. |
oortiz
[Registered User]
29 May 2012 13:55 | [quote]Quote From Ancatdubh:
Hi all, I was just wondering if any of you is starting a PhD without funding and how you plan to cover expenses. I do not know about the results of all scholarships i applied for, and if they are unsuccessful I don't know what I should do.
Do you think it's worth to ask a loan or spend so much from your own pocket? Is it possible to combine part time work with PhD studies...? Thanks you so much![/quote]
Most things in life come down to money, and postgraduate study is one of them. It's obvious that if you're not one of the 15% fortunate enough to possess a full scholarship then funding for your PhD or Masters is giving you a headache. But, here I would like to share what I've been told by my professor and that is funding from charities, trusts, and foundations. Easy to say of course, but harder to do. My university had some links on its website to charities, but I was ineligible for almost all the awards- most being restricted to certain subjects. I was left with just three more ‘general’ ones, there was no guidance on which would be appropriate for me, or how I could apply strongly. Everywhere I looked, charities and trusts were being touted as potential sources of funding. There was apparently treasure in the jungle, but maps were in short supply. Then, later i decided to persist like a masochist, and over the next 2 and a half years, I gradually managed to win 40 awards from various bodies, and have been able to fund my PhD almost to research council levels.
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strawberrygirl
[Registered User]
30 May 2012 18:12 | Hi BilboBaggins,
Thanks for clarifying what you meant. Yes, it seems to me that the things which most count for getting work afterwards are a good publications and conference paper list, teaching experience and a good thesis. I think it's true that some mature phd students are doing it for interest etc and not aiming to work in the field. From my own perspective I am a mature student doing a humanities PhD and do hope to work in academia/research once I finish.
So to Ancatdubh I would say that be really clear why you are doing the PhD. If you are coming straight from U/G or a masters and haven't a lot of work experience be really clear it's what you want to do if you are going to self fund it (I'd say the same for those who aren't self funding). I was planning to self-fund (through part time work) if I didn't get funding because I knew that it was definitely what I wanted to do.
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crusoeonmars
[Registered User]
07 June 2012 22:37 | Hi all, I have been offered a self-funding PhD place at a UK uni and have until end of this month to decide whether or not to accept. I currently work full-time and think I will have to continue to work full-time if I do the PhD (it's English Lit related). Is it possible to do a PhD and work full-time? |
screamingaddabs
[Registered User]
08 June 2012 09:31 | ======= Date Modified 08 Jun 2012 09:33:25 =======
[quote]Quote From crusoeonmars:
Hi all, I have been offered a self-funding PhD place at a UK uni and have until end of this month to decide whether or not to accept. I currently work full-time and think I will have to continue to work full-time if I do the PhD (it's English Lit related). Is it possible to do a PhD and work full-time?[/quote]
Solely from what I've read on these boards (no personal experience) it is possible to do what you say BUT....
- It would be very very very difficult (ridiculously so)
- You will need an absurd amount of motivation
- You will need excellent social support from family and friends
- Despite needing the support you will actually have no social life whatsoever
Bear in mind that you are essentially proposing to work a 70 to 80 hour week, every week for at least 3 years. I'll repeat that for emphasis, you are essentially proposing to work a 70 to 80 hour week, every week for at least 3 years.
It can be done. People have done it in the past. Do you want to do it? If you have incredible motivation and time management skills then go for it. Otherwise look at other options. Either:
a) Don't do it at all
b) Work part time instead of full time and eat all your savings (assuming you have them)
c) Work part time and cut your cost of living right down - move back home, sell your car and unnecessary possessions etc
d) Do the course PART-TIME (this is practically a must actually - it will still be very hard though)
e) Something else I haven't thought of
Hope this helps - I'm just trying to give honest advice without sugar coating it.
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joyce
[Registered User]
08 June 2012 10:10 | I am self funding - because I know there would have been no funding form my subject, and I work full time, but in a school so it is full time during the term (plus 5 extra weeks), but I can plan my major stuff for the 'holidays' which works well, and do other things during term time, but I have taken the part time PhD route. I think it would be hard/ almost impossible for me to do both full time as I do want a bit of a life outside study even if it is only trying to keep the garden under control. |
smoobles
[Registered User]
08 June 2012 11:24 | I have to agree with Screamingaddabs - there is no way on Earth I would consider doing a PhD full time AND a full-time job! There just aren't enough hours in the day to get everything done. Also, when would you ever be able to attend conferences/seminars/meetings with supervisors? I'm sure the odd person has done it, but I imagine they are very few and far between and would have chosen to do it differently if they could!
For me, the only option would be to work part-time and do the PhD part-time, as I don't see how else you would manage. My PhD hours were basically the same as a full-time job, so approx 35-40 hours a week. If you add in a full-time job that's 70-80 hours a week every week, and there is no way I could have coped with that for 4 years.
The only other possibility would be to work full-time and do the PhD part-time, but to be honest even this would be a struggle, and probably still mean working around 60 hours a week. Definitely less pressured than a full-time PhD though, and a very motivated person might manage better than I would!
Getting a loan to pay for the PhD is a risky strategy - this assumes you will earn enough in the future to pay it back. For me, this would add too much pressure. Also - is this even possible? It would be a massive amount of money - for example my PhD was fully funded and I got approx £16500 each year to live on. You could probably cope with less though, say £12000 (this is what I got during my masters), so that's still £36,000 for 3 years. Then there are uni fees - for me this was approx £3500 a year (but in the UK these will soon be up to £9000 a year). So even at the very lowest of my estimates, a 3 year PhD (and lots of people take 4!) would cost £46,500!! Can't imagine many banks would have lent me that when I was a student, they probably wouldn't now and I'm working full-time!
So in summary, the options for me would be (in order of preference!):
1) PhD full-time with funding
2) Part-time job, part-time PhD (and really cutting back on lifestyle to afford this - move back in with parents?)
3) Full-time job and forget the PhD
4) Full-time job and part-time PhD
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123Giblet
[Registered User]
08 June 2012 12:37 | Smoobles you are very lucky,
I am self funded and work full time and have a toddler at home. It is possible and it is worth it. Some areas of research come with no money, so you buckle down and get on with it or walk away. It is the true test to the validity or hard work
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smoobles
[Registered User]
08 June 2012 16:07 | Wow, I knew someone would come along and prove me wrong Giblet ;-) You must be amazingly motivated to juggle all of that!!
Yes, I was lucky to get a fully funded PhD, but I am in the sciences where I believe it is more common as you simply couldn't manage to buy all the equipment, lab space etc that is necessary if you were self-funded.
For me, the sacrifices involved in working and doing a PhD full-time would be too great as I have an active and busy life outside of uni/work that I wouldn't have wanted to give up, possibly because I just didn't love my topic enough - I liked it, but was happy to step away from it in the evenings and at weekends and forget about it for a while. Obviously it is possible to do everything at once, but you have to be sure of your dedication before starting as that is the only thing that will get you through. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but admiration for those who do manage it all, but for me personally I would have to question whether the effort was worth it, and on balance I would probably have said no. |
