16 to 30 of 38 PhD Forum Posts
| Author |
Message |
sciencephd
[Registered User]
24 January 2020 03:00
|
Have you seen anyone who got a postdoc job without a first-authored paper?
User: sciencephd - 24 January 2020 03:00
Quote From Tudor_Queen:
The thing is, sciencephd seems concerned that s/he does not yet have a first author publication... something must be causing this. Maybe others at the same level in the lab DO already have some papers? Facing up to it and trying to remedy it is probably the most positive thing a person can do if that is the case. Other students in my group all have at least two first-authored papers on top journals before the end of their PhD. My supervisor gave me a project that is very different from theirs. My project is very boring. Although it's relatively easy to get some results, the results are not impactful and cannot reach top journals. My supervisor thinks it's better to use my results to complement other papers and make those papers easier to get to top journals rather than publish my story on a mediocre journal. And by the way, the other students have all secured a postdoc job right after their PhD, in a world famous group in this field. By comparison, my achievements look miserable and I don't think I can find a postdoc job so easily.
|
sciencephd
[Registered User]
24 January 2020 02:48
|
User: sciencephd - 24 January 2020 02:48
You don't need his permission to write a paper. Your rationale can be that you have already written it and you want his feedback before you publish. As you have taken the initiative he will have to give some reason for not wanting you to publish from which you can work with. He might tear your work to shreds and further dent your self confidence but he might decide to include other people's work in your first name paper. Thank you, Tudor_Queen and rewt, for coming back and giving me further advice. I've done 5 major experiments so far. The results from Experiments 1 & 3 have been inserted into other people's papers (not submitted yet). So now I have the results from only 2, 4 & 5, but these 3 experiments can't form a complete story. Experiment 1 is the most important one - later experiments are all based on it. Therefore, in order to write my own paper, I need to ask 1 & 3 back and use 1,2,3 & 4 to write a decent paper. But I've already agreed that my supervisor can use 1 & 3 for other papers. If I tell him I need them back, then there'll be scuffles. Another option is, let him publish the two papers, and then I still use 1,2,3&4 to write my own paper. But 1&3 are already published, so will any journals still accept my paper? I doubt it.
|
Tudor_Queen
[Registered User]
23 January 2020 21:04
|
User: Tudor_Queen - 23 January 2020 21:04
The thing is, sciencephd seems concerned that s/he does not yet have a first author publication... something must be causing this. Maybe others at the same level in the lab DO already have some papers? Facing up to it and trying to remedy it is probably the most positive thing a person can do if that is the case.
|
pm133
[Registered User]
23 January 2020 06:54
|
User: pm133 - 23 January 2020 06:54
Jamie if you calm down a second and re-read my post you'll see I did not call Nobel prize winning science "secondary". I was talking about the motivation of the student applying to those labs being about reputation first and science second. It's not the first time you've made emotional outbursts on here without taking the time to read what others are posting properly.
I come on this forum to help others who are struggling to get through their PhDs and secure postdoc positions. If I'm preaching, it's because people like you keep posting absolute nonsense about Russell Group universities such as having to be "on top of your game" to secure post docs. It's rubbish and potentially damaging to others. You are flat out wrong on this.
I'd be grateful if you could drop the metaphor and explain exactly what you mean by your sour grapes comment. Are you seriously suggesting I am in some way jealous? Of who and of what? After my PhD I was approached by two different supervisors and offered postdoc positions. Both were at RG universities and both were leaders in their fields. I didn't have to apply for either. They approached me. I turned them both down because I wanted to go back to running my own business. I have no interest in engaging in a public pissing contest with you over our respective achievements but I'm not going to sit back and allow you to make personal attacks on my motives without knowing who I am. You can challenge my view but cut out the personal crap please. That;s the second time I've had to ask that from you.
I should add that my ex-PhD colleagues who came from a non-RG background and secured RG postdocs were in the fields of Chemistry, Physics and Biochem. Two of them have now secured permanent positions within those RG unis. Perhaps it would be different if they were in the Humanities. I have no idea.
|
Jamie_Wizard
[Registered User]
22 January 2020 23:51
|
User: Jamie_Wizard - 22 January 2020 23:51
Quote From pm133:
There is also another factor where tons of students pursue perceived reputation first and foremost and the science is very much a secondary consideration. I wouldn't even want to guess how many applications arrive on the desk of a Nobel prize winner or a very well known researcher at Oxford, Cambridge or one of the Ivy League unis. But achieving a Nobel prize means the science is good - it's outstanding and absolutely NOT secondary! I sense a whiff of the Fox and Sour grapes in what you're preaching pm133, and I've called it out before. [no offence intended] For those that don't know it, story goes that the fox tries to eat grapes from a vine but cannot reach them. Rather than admit defeat, he states they are undesirable. The expression "sour grapes" originated from this fable. The following list speaks for itself:[url=nothumb]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_university_affiliation[/url]
|
pm133
[Registered User]
22 January 2020 20:52
|
User: pm133 - 22 January 2020 20:52
It will certainly differ by field I would expect.
There is also another factor where tons of students pursue perceived reputation first and foremost and the science is very much a secondary consideration. I wouldn't even want to guess how many applications arrive on the desk of a Nobel prize winner or a very well known researcher at Oxford, Cambridge or one of the Ivy League unis.
This happens with graduate jobs too. You get some companies receiving tens of thousands of applications from graduates simply because they have appeared on a "best employer" list somewhere, with other much better companies receiving none at all because they are smaller and off list. I must admit that I find this baffling behaviour because for me, the job is everything but I appear to be in a minority.
The symptom of this is that some people just struggle to get positions whilst other possibly less talented people seem to simply walk from one role to another, seemingly effortlessly.
It's up to people how hard they want to make things for themselves whilst balancing up the perceived benefits.
|
Tudor_Queen
[Registered User]
22 January 2020 13:58
|
User: Tudor_Queen - 22 January 2020 13:58
I think it must differ by field then. Maybe look at some relevant job ads and see what the expectations are.
|
pm133
[Registered User]
21 January 2020 23:30
|
User: pm133 - 21 January 2020 23:30
sciencephd, several of my ex PhD colleagues have no first author papers and all of them had no issues getting postdoc positions in Russell Group universities across the UK. None of them were particularly gifted and none of them came from an RG uni so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over any of this.
Obviously a first author paper won't harm you but it's not the end of the world if you have good reasons for not having one. It is particularly difficult to get first authorship if you are a computational chemist working in a group for example unless you are either demonstrating the limits of a technique or testing a new method.
As with everything, it's about supply and demand. If your prospective postdoc position gains a lot of applications, you'll have some issues but there are plenty of academics in all universities who struggle to attract good candidates. Therein lies your opportunity and there are plenty of them.
|
Tudor_Queen
[Registered User]
21 January 2020 21:33
|
User: Tudor_Queen - 21 January 2020 21:33
Quote From rewt:Quote From sciencephd:
Thank you so much for your advice and encouragement, Jamie!
My supervisor cares only about his own career but not my development. His indifference to my needs has made me lose my confidence. I've already reminded him that I need more advice on my development, but he couldn't care less and just told me to follow his instruction. Well, at this moment, his instruction is that I have to tailor my data to other people's papers. I'm struggling to find enough rationale to convince him to give me a chance to write my own paper.
You don't need his permission to write a paper. Your rationale can be that you have already written it and you want his feedback before you publish. As you have taken the initiative he will have to give some reason for not wanting you to publish from which you can work with. He might tear your work to shreds and further dent your self confidence but he might decide to include other people's work in your first name paper. Yes, absolutely. And if he does tear it to shreds and throw it in the bin, be sure to get a second and third opinion and feedback from others in the field (though not necessarily in your lab as they might just follow his lead). I don't think there is an easy road to this, but asserting yourself in this way could help. If you don't manage to get first author pubs from your PhD, all hope is not lost. It will just be harder to get a postdoc. But you can also go for RA positions. You can seek to get first author publications within either of those roles. Those are typical next steps anyway before becoming a PI. Most people do multiple postdocs.
|
rewt
[Registered User]
21 January 2020 19:49
|
User: rewt - 21 January 2020 19:49
Quote From sciencephd:
Thank you so much for your advice and encouragement, Jamie!
My supervisor cares only about his own career but not my development. His indifference to my needs has made me lose my confidence. I've already reminded him that I need more advice on my development, but he couldn't care less and just told me to follow his instruction. Well, at this moment, his instruction is that I have to tailor my data to other people's papers. I'm struggling to find enough rationale to convince him to give me a chance to write my own paper. You don't need his permission to write a paper. Your rationale can be that you have already written it and you want his feedback before you publish. As you have taken the initiative he will have to give some reason for not wanting you to publish from which you can work with. He might tear your work to shreds and further dent your self confidence but he might decide to include other people's work in your first name paper.
|
sciencephd
[Registered User]
18 January 2020 07:03
|
User: sciencephd - 18 January 2020 07:03
Thank you so much for your advice and encouragement, Jamie!
My supervisor cares only about his own career but not my development. His indifference to my needs has made me lose my confidence. I've already reminded him that I need more advice on my development, but he couldn't care less and just told me to follow his instruction. Well, at this moment, his instruction is that I have to tailor my data to other people's papers. I'm struggling to find enough rationale to convince him to give me a chance to write my own paper.
|
Jamie_Wizard
[Registered User]
17 January 2020 14:39
|
User: Jamie_Wizard - 17 January 2020 14:39
As for aiming for a prestigious institution (Russell group or others) for post-doc, you'll usually need to demonstrate that you're at the top of your game, and more importantly, have something significant to contribute to that research group. One doesn't necessarily need to go to such a prestigious institution to do good quality, impactful research. That said, it is usually the most impactful research that is carried out at these institutions.
All the best,
Jamie
|
Jamie_Wizard
[Registered User]
17 January 2020 14:39
|
User: Jamie_Wizard - 17 January 2020 14:39
Hi there,
It's good that you're ambitious but I think you need to align your attitude with your goals, because when you say "currently I don't have any first-authored papers, and my supervisor isn't planning on making me write one.", it appears as if you think it's your supervisors PhD and career, especially when you use the phrase "making me write one".
I read your later reply about your supervisor using parts of your data for other peoples papers. A good supervisor should be able to balance their own research goals with keeping plan to guide the PhD student to develop and have enough peer-reviewed material for their PhD and viva. When this doesn't happen, the PhD student/candidate should ensure the supervisor is reminded of this and is not jeopardising their PhD. I think your supervisor has let you down in this regard, but then I also think you have let yourself down for not challenging this and standing up for your PhD -- believe me, unless you have very easy-going examiners, you'll need to stand up for your PhD in the viva!
After the first year(s) up until the upgrade to PhD-proper (usually 1-2 years) and when one becomes a PhD candidate, really it doesn't make sense to not take full responsibility for your own development and publishing, even if that appears daunting. Ideally, PhD candidates would have gotten a feel and developed a bit of confidence in their first 1-2 years submitting to and presenting at conferences, and submitting papers (even if they are reject or have significant amendments) - it's part of the learning and development process.
By the sounds of it, you've been fortunate with your experiments and results - as you know, in the sciences experiments can go wrong - your supervisor is making use of those results to compliment others work. I think you need to be more proactive, especially now that you're approaching the end.
|
Tudor_Queen
[Registered User]
17 January 2020 10:59
|
User: Tudor_Queen - 17 January 2020 10:59
Could you have a conversation with your supervisor and tell them that you would like to have a first authored publication and you would like to plan the steps to achieve that?
|
sciencephd
[Registered User]
15 January 2020 19:32
|
User: sciencephd - 15 January 2020 19:32
Quote From sciencegirl3456:
I am in a similar situation due to an issue of an author on my paper that should be first name. I am applying for postdocs and have had 4 interviews, my lack of publishing has never openly been said as a reason I did not get a postdoc. I can think of quite a few people I know who got postdocs without a first author publication in science. Hi sciencegirl3456 Thank you for letting me know there are postdocs who didn't have first authored papers. You said 'my lack of publishing has never openly been said as a reason I did not get a postdoc', but what did they openly tell you? What's the reason for their refusing to give you the job? I'm wondering what I need to show them to convince them to hire me if I lack good papers. Do you know how those postdocs who didn't have first-authored papers got their postdoc job? What do the PIs seek from applicants?
|
16 to 30 of 38 PhD Forum Posts
Continue with Facebook
